gold vs. dollars

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chauncy
gold vs. dollars

Just read this sobering article about why the USD is worthless: http://www.gold-eagle.com/article/three-reasons-why-usd-already-worthless

Help me out here.  What this article failed to do was explain why gold has any more intrinsic value than dollars.  As with dollars, I can't eat it or do anything useful with it.

ment17

gold has more intrinsic value than a paper fluff piece .

the dollar has lost 99% of value since 1940  .. gold  has pretty well kept n a good range

buddy what a brain dead idea .. gold for 5000 years has been worth something .. paper what kind of history guy are you..

the whole gold fiat argument you put forth is a red herring and lets the readers know your just south of not being bright

chauncy

wow, I ask an innocent question about gold vs. dollars and ment17 resorts to calling me brain dead and "not being bright". thanks.  

I'm new to investing in gold, don't frequent these kind of discussion forums, don't know all of the arguments, etc.. I was asking to get more informed...or is this forum only for those who already know all the answers, like ment17?

Ment17, you truly have forgotten the basic principle of life. I suggest you give some more thought to what "love your neighbor" and being a man really means.  

thanks for making this forum a "hostile environment".

ment17

chauncy... sorry for the two adjectives .. ... it was not my intent to be hostile but to wonder why a questtion of the value of dollar fiat and gold would be such an issue .. .. how long have you been into gold as a stack and silver .. what does 85 billion a month of new dollars do for thte value of fiat

I love you chauncy .. the choice of words were wrong .. but why the question ?

 

any way i beg your pardon and can see where i was wrong in choice of words that hurt   sorry

i will be more careful in the future ..ment

thanks for bring the issue up you are right

chris-d

What does $85B a month of new $'s do for the value of fiat? It increases the value of limited cash and increases the amount of debt in the form of IOU's. In our system no cash can enter into circulation in debt free form. Neither can digital. QE will have to be paid with cash or more QE or BAIL IN.

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Grampdad

Chauncy,  just as you  cannot eat a ton of wheat, or cattle, nor is the farm crop of any value until it finds a marketplace, is processed, and made available so is gold or silver.  Like the crops the value is there and it has value if one finds another willing to trade.  Consider how farm products are incredibley cheap compared to other goods.  The efficient farmer only stays in business if he can be more efficient.  Too much production lowers the price.  Look at Micron and memory chip prices.  These are examples of mass production bringing prices down.  Again a gallon of diesel is not palatable but incredibly valuable to the farmer so as to bring us something to eat.

Gold and silver are limited resources with both currency and industrial value

chris-d

Lately the dollar has been as good as gold. As debt increases and cash dollars in circulation decreases, the dollar will increase in value. QE as practiced by the FED is simply a means to increase debt. Stay away from gold and buy palladium instead.

jayjay

Chauncy, did you read the full article?  For your benefit read it again and then read this link, which is on this web page today.  

 

http://www.gold-eagle.com/article/escaping-cash-bank

 

Good luck.  Please enjoy ment he is passionate, harmless and free with his money if he likes you.  

chauncy

no worries Ment. apology accepted.

thanks for the link jayjay. I did see that article on the site a few minutes ago.

cheers!

-Chauncy

CharlieZ

Folly. Less than 15% of all gold ever mined has been used for "industrial" purposes. Approx half in jewelry. Somewhere around 35% in bank reserves/investments. Most of the value of gold comes from the fact that people like it for irrational reasons. The fact that you can exchange it for goods and services is no more rational than exchanging paper. If you want to protect yourself from economic collapse you may be better off keeping your savings in canned food and camping gear.

 

 

 

Mikeyman

It depends on what you mean by "intrinsic value". Gold is useful as money, I.e. as a store of value and a medium for the exchange of goods. It meets all the criteria for that, including it is available in limited supply, is impossible (or very difficult) to counterfeit, is readily transportable, etc. Fiat currency, I.e. currency that is not backed by gold, fails to meet the first of those criteria and so is doomed to failure, because governments cannot resist the urge to create unlimited quantities of it.

Mikeyman

Further to that, at some stage it is necessary to convert your gold into something you can eat or use. You can do that by converting some of it into currency or by spending your gold coins directly. In our system of fiat currency, you can only do the former. But of course fiat currencies will collapse, so we will go back to using gold-backed currency, I guess.

chris-d

Because a loan originates out of nothing in a fiat system, it does not have an owner. When that loan is paid back, the fractional part that came out of nothing smply disappears. That is why most of our debt is paid with debt for there is no cash to pay it with. The US money supply is shrinking comparede to the growth of debt. Thus the US$ will increase in value do to its limited supply. Since 2009 the US$ has increased 17% in value, making cash KING. Peter Schiff says gold is the opposite of a bubble. But the truth is the banksters used GLD and like kind vehicles as a means to create a gold bubble to be shorted that only they could then empty by withrawing the gold at the lowest price. 

Mikeyman

the overall M3 money supply in the USA may be shrinking, due to deleveraging (paying off debts) in the economy, but US treasury debt is not shrinking, nor is the US trade deficit. Off-balance-sheet liabilities due to pension entitlements and medicare are looming over the horizon. It only needs a spike in interest rates to bring the whole Ponzi scheme down. Now we see accumulation of physical gold by central banks and in the retail sector. Due to market manipulation, the price of ETF gold is less than the cost of production. This will cause physical shortages and then we may see large-scale revisions to the way that the Gold market works. IMO, there is a need to own physical gold as insurance.

Mikeyman

It will be interesting to see whether or not the recent news that Detroit is bankrupt will be a wakeup call for where current fiscal policies are taking the USA. It could boost the demand for Gold as insurance.

Simba

By reading this article, I just think we still have few years to go before China really engages itself in this currency war. Indeed, Chinese current gold stock is not enough to cope with the loss of it dollar reserves (3 trillions dollars). But sooner or later they will try to put a gold exchange standard on their currency. I am just speculating that when they will do that there is a chance that chinese yuan will become the international currency.  http://www.buygoldordie.com/2013/07/towards-a-gold-backed-currency/

w

Most people thi k that the idea of currency backed by gold is a totally archaic idea. But as I understand it, the world was still effectively on a gold standard as recently as 1971. The Dollar was backed by gold and all other major currencies were linked to the dollar. The system of totally fiat currencies is only 42 years old and looks to become a failed experiment. The world is due for an overhaul of how it creates and uses money.

Mikeyman

So would gold be of any use in an economic collapse, or would food and shotgun shells be better? It depends on what caused the collapse. If tehere were genuine shortages of everything in the world as a whole and western nations were starving, then perhaps good would not be of any use. However, if all the world.'s resources were intact and the problem was only the collapse of fiat currencies, then gold would be a good asset. Merxhants mght accept it as money or else if a new gold-backed currency were to be established then your gold would buy some of it. Either way it a good idea to have a supply of food put by.

jmillny

I think gold is a much better way to secure your finances. I had some research done and talked about a great site herehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We5sJR6gg9I

Mikeyman

Gold better than dollars? It depends in your view of the future and your investment objectives. With so much money being created around the world it is prudent to have some gold as a hedge against inflation. Right now investors banks and companies are sitting on cash piles, so the money is not causing too much general price inflation. The markets are all so manipulated that its hard for investors to know which way to jump, hence the cash piles. They need to see how it pans out. For those who do short term speculation in gold, the heavy manipulation of the price makes for bad sentiment, but that cannot continue for too much longer.  That is my view as an ordinary schmuck anyway.

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